Talk:Pinoy Big Brother: Otso

New season

Hi Piony Big Brother editors! Just wanted to thank you on all the hard work on past season articles! The Big Brother articles overall have been undergoing some reviews and the PBB articles look good but we want all articles to be their absolute best. For those that specialize in Pinoy Big Brother if you could could you help with improving the citing and sourcing of PBB articles? I'm having a hard time trying to find some good sources in general for PBB and it would really help all PBB articles if we could improve their references and citations. Thanks again for all you do happy editing and go PBB! ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 03:57, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for the help! $$$upermann (talk) 11:47, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

Quick rundown of articles earlier

Hello. And welcome to another season. I've just gone through a quick inspections of the seasons articles, and have noticed major changes in the past. I'd like to thank Renzoy16 for maintaining these pages, as well as other users here. I haven't paid much attention for almost a year now since my interest in the show has been dwindling since All In. I just want to put out reminders for those who are new here and want to contribute to this article and future others.

• I've seen that the infoboxes were changed and the pages were moved into new pages with longer article titles. Please do not do this kind of edit in future articles. There's a whole Wikipedia project page for Big Brother. Always always ALWAYS follow the guidelines there. Big Brother is its own show and has its own guidelines. If in doubt, always check the WikiProject guidelines.
• This season is gonna be another long one, with different twists and complicated nomination rules. Always keep your edit simple; the more concise the edit the better.
• I've seen a couple of vandals from previous pages, especially from users who are almost obviously a part of a fandom of the show, and who are trigger-happy when it comes to editing. Keep an eye on these vandals.

That's all. I'll keep myself posted here. See you again guys. Oenix2nd (talk) 04:18, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

Discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Big Brother#Discussion about Template:Big Brother housemates and Template:Big Brother endgame

 You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Big Brother#Discussion about Template:Big Brother housemates and Template:Big Brother endgame . Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 09:28, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

For the new editors

@Tantan08:, @EdJustine:, @Mikaxkrul:, @Mean Boy:, @HelenaRain51:: I just saw a new wave of editors for PBB. Let me welcome you to the community. Thank you for the help that you're contributing to making these articles proper and updates. With that, I'd like you to check previous sections of this talk page. I'd also like to add a few more points.

• @Tantan08:: Not all contents of the table should be centered, especially paragraph texts. This is hard to read. Please follow guidelines from the WP:BIGBRO project. We have our own guidelines there. Please follow them
• Do not put information that is still under speculation. Only put details once these are announced from their official channels, both online, and on TV. Also, don't put the information if there is no housemate attached to it.
• Regarding the first nomination round of Teens Batch 1, there was no Ligtask challenge on that first round. Judges merely chose the best performing pair, who would receive cash prize and immunity. This is not the same as a Ligtask challenge, where there is a separate task specifically for this twist.If the show states that a Ligtask challenge is coupled with another task, like the third nomination round, by all means, include names in the Ligtask section of the noms table.

If you have any questions, please ask me. And please, do not implement a drastic format change until it's been approved by other users. Thank you, and keep on editing. Oenix2nd (talk) 07:41, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

New infobox implementation

As per discussion here, there will be a new infobox implementation. This means that the old infobox, and the housemates table will be changed. I've already reflected the changes on the page, and to the other season pages as well. Please read through the discussion to get a better idea on how this change works. @Tantan08: Since you are the most active editor right now, please be mindful of the new changes. Consult the WP:BIGBRO guidelines for more info. Thank you. Oenix2nd (talk) 02:24, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

@Tantan08: @JMJGDDLPJM: @EdJustine:: I saw your edits. Seems like you have ignored the new changes for the Big Brother infoboxes. I will revert it back to my edit. Please read the guidelines. We are contributors who need to be mindful of changes in format, templates, and module. You can't just edit it in a way that you like. This will be a formal letter to you. Please don't disregard this, and please reply to me here if you have read this message. Any more edits that are not aligned with the guidelines shall be meted with a warning. Thank you. Oenix2nd (talk) 08:33, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

Rampant editing

@Tantan08: I think I have given you enough warnings to the other edits you've been doing here for the past days. It's fair to say that you didn't heed any of my messages. I have already given you a warning for vandalism. Please consult this talk page, and explain your recent edits, and why have you been ignoring these messages. You have two warnings on your talk page already. Please be guided by these guidelines. Oenix2nd (talk) 02:59, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

@Tantan08: Its great to see your enthusiasm to help out with this article however you can not delete WP:SECONDARY references like you have been doing. Reliable sources are crucial to an article and without them the article could be deleted. The article also needs secondary sources that are not from ABS-CBN's official website when available for verifiability reasons. Please take some time and review Wikipedia's policies and guidelines in regards to sources. Thank you. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 06:16, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

RfC on housemate table

Two users are warring over the format of the housemates table on this page. The goal, ultimately, is to have a unified, and formal template used in all related articles about Pinoy Big Brother seasons. Oenix2nd (talk) 05:45, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

When I moved this article over to the new table my initial edit [1] maintained the format used with Pinoy Big Brother: Lucky 7 since it also had multiple batches of Housemates (aka contestants). Its also worth noting that in the midst of the edit warring valuable secondary references are being removed. The article should not rely soly upon references from the official broadcaster ABS-CBN's official website which is against WP:PRIMARY. Also the editors seem to be disrupting the infobox like removing "No. of episodes" instead of just increasing the number as an episode airs on TV. Granted I understand the number will increase daily since the show airs seven days/week but still lots of disruption here. The table should be restored back to the formatting used during my initial edit because it is the same formatting used in the previous season article plus it has a WP:SECONDARY source that was removed that is valuable to the article. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 06:09, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

This thread was mainly to call the attention of @Tantan08: who has been editing endlessly in this article. @Alucard 16: I saw your initial housemates table edit, and everything looks good, but here's my take on it

• I think it's better if we leave the "Origin" panel out of the table. Yes, it exists on this page, but I think that's where it should only exist. I still can't think of a better reason why, but placing the panel onto each season's housemates table will just create a ruckus amongst Wiki editors and fans of the show. If you'll look at the talk page, I have laid out a hierarchy for "Origin", as I had another dispute with another user there. Random users only care about certain information on this article, and "Origin" is one of them. I've already removed that panel in the other seasons' housemates tables, as it would just create feuds among editors.
• "Entered" and "Exited" is a better label than "Day Entered" and "Day Exited". This set of housemates will have multiple enter days and exit days, and just putting a number on it might be a hard read for some.
• Should the housemates' names be formatted like table headers? I think it's better if we don't do that, especially that they are quite long, and might be hard to read.
• References to housemates' profiles are okay, as long as they're archived. Oenix2nd (talk) 09:29, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

@Oenix2nd: Well as far as the Housemate/HouseGuest tables go no one has really commented on a clear format for them as far as the project goes. Gonnym brought up some examples of how the tables could be formatted at this discussion with the examples in this sandbox.

• As far as the "Origin" column goes I kept it in at the time to avoid any disruption but I believe the column should not be there as per MOS:ICON. For example once the whole conversion process is complete I plan on removing the flag icons from all the season articles of Big Brother (Serbian TV series) and replacing them with text where appropriate.
• If the consensus for Pinoy Big Brother articles is to keep the singular Entered and Exited columns then it would be best to format them like this by using {{Unbulleted list|Day #|Day #}} instead of Day #<br />Day # as per WP:ACCESSABILITY which produces the same result.
• It was a proposal made (see above) I've been applying it to Big Brother (UK TV series) and Celebrity Big Brother (UK TV series) Housemate tables and see no issue with it. Personally the UK articles I've converted don't look hard to read and some of them do have long names while some are wikilinked. It was proposed here this discussion with some examples in this sandbox and no one commented against it so I thought it was okay to use.
• I have no problem with there being references to their official profiles from the official website but they should be archived via the Wayback Machine since ABS-CBN doesn't typically keep an archive of a past Piony Big Brother website after a season ends so I agree with you there. However their official profile should not replace reliable, secondary sources which is my issue. This reference was removed completely when their profiles were added into the article. Personally this is one of my few issues with Piony Big Brother articles in general is their reliance on WP:PRIMARY sources with very little WP:SECONDARY sources. As the seasons age it gets harder for to find sources for these seasons. I know for me personally it is harder for me to find sources on Pinoy Big Brother than it is my native BB which is Big Brother (U.S. TV series).

I think the way the table looks as of this revision looks very good and has no issues. However the Housemate table with past revision will run into issues once this season gets down to the fifth and final batch which is a group of previous contestants from the first four batches. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 10:18, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

@Alucard 16: Sorry for the delayed response. Full time job and everything. Anyways, I'm glad that we can agree on this revision for the Housemates tables. I hope we could set this as a standard somewhere, at least in the PBB universe. This past revision does have problems, I agree. It's not flexible for information that are still yet to be known in the series.

I think I can revert it back to the simpler version, since @Tantan08: has reverted it to his own version. I think that block didn't do much. I think we can agree to remove the "Origin" column, and always have references for housemates profiles, primary or secondary. I can make the housemates' names into header styles. I'm good with this. Oenix2nd (talk) 01:37, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Adult Batch 1 Housemates

Why is the list of Adult Batch 1 Housemates are not yet published until now? Is the template still on progress or pending from admins?  SoonSoo90 (talk) 13:18, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

@SoonSoo90: There has been edit warring going on with this article so more time has been spent trying to resolve the edit warring which is why it took so long. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 23:37, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

Removing sources

@Alucard 16: We have a huge problem regarding sources. @Tantan08: has been removing a big chunk of them. He does retain the housemates' references though, but other info on this page needs sources too. What can we do to fix this? Oenix2nd (talk) 01:40, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

@Oenix2nd: Just follow the process outlined at WP:EDITWAR which is what I've been doing. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 23:39, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

Housemate selection history

We might need to move this part to a new separate article. What do you think? Oenix2nd (talk) 03:36, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

@Oenix2nd: I would recommend at this time that we don't split anything from this article just yet. Before any splitting occurs this article should be stable with no edit warring so that the edit warring doesn't run over into the other articles. Based on the size the article isn't that big for an ongoing season.

• Also before splitting the section needs to be properly sourced. Some editors have raised concerns with Pinoy Big Brother: Unlimited's split articles Pinoy Big Brother: Unlimited events and Pinoy Big Brother: Unlimited nomination history due to sourcing.
• There has also been concerns raised about Pinoy Big Brother: 737 and its two parts Pinoy Big Brother: 737 – Part 1 and Pinoy Big Brother: 737 – Part 2.

I recommend we try a custom article layout before any splitting takes place. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 23:36, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Pinoy Big Brother (season 1)#Requested move 18 January 2019

 You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Pinoy Big Brother (season 1)#Requested move 18 January 2019 . Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 23:17, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

Article expansion

I will be constantly expanding the Summary of events sections. I will also be constantly adding references in support of the details found in the article. I am encouraging everyone to feel free to join.

One thing I would like to open. In the official YouTube channel of the show, the first day of the Adults was not referred to as Day 60. It was referred to as Day 1. I think we should apply this and just put a caveat that the first day is the 60th day of broadcast of this season. Any thoughts?--AR E N Z O Y 1 6A•t a l k• 18:07, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

@Alucard 16: and @Oenix2nd:. Thoughts, anyone?--AR E N Z O Y 1 6A•t a l k• 17:40, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

I do believe the article should be expanded and split to four articles, similar to Pinoy Big Brother: 737 having two articles (for Parts 1 and 2). If the broadcast refers to Day 60 as Day 1, we should renumber these days as such. --JC (talk) 00:14, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

Actually I wouldn't recommend splitting it into separate articles for now. If the show has reset the naming for the batches then we should follow suite but leave notes as to what is going on. --Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 05:27, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

Made the changes to the days.--AR E N Z O Y 1 6A•t a l k• 11:21, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

How does this look? I reorganized the article in my sandbox. The first part is information about all batches then each batch is separated into its own main section with batch specific information in sub-headers. This way it would be easier to read with the multiple batches. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 14:42, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

@Alucard 16: This looks much better! --AR E N Z O Y 1 6A•t a l k• 14:24, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

Most definitely. This looks much much better and this should be implemented if we are not separating the articles yet. --JC (talk) 02:06, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Discussion at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2019 April 23#Template:Big Brother sidebar

 You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2019 April 23#Template:Big Brother sidebar . Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 21:25, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Question

I'm a bit confused on usage between a grey No Nominations cell and a yellow No Nominations cell. Which one should be used in which situations? RealityWikier (talk) 02:24, 6 June 2019 (UTC)

No Nominations

No Nominations

Batch Names

To the person who keeps reverting me, please read the policy on Wikipedia:Ownership of content. I, for my part, see no reason why these names should be absent, since the hosts keep mentioning them and the other people would be baffled with the absence of the information here. These names are official names, as legit as the "challenge names" such as "Housemates vs. Star Dreamers Challenge", "Golden Circle Challenges." The proposal to omit the batch names seems absurd; Would you prefer that the challenges be named "Challenge 1", "Challenge 2", "Challenge 3"? Also, in a series of reversions, the proper method to stop it would be to cite a proper Wikipedia policy, instead of making subjective declarations of "triviality", "promotional use". Again, read wp:own; other users have a say in this, such as myself. In the absence of a citation on an applicable WP policy, we'll both be wasting our time.Aniloy (talk) 01:35, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Good that we are here, in order to settle this issue. You know, even if I am one of the major editors of this article, I know that I do not own this article. So, accusing me that I am owning this article is wrong. I have even suggested first to bring it here, right? Okay, let's start:

1. I, for my part, see no reason why these names should be absent, since the hosts keep mentioning them and the other people would be baffled with the absence of the information here.

Well, I agree that these batch nicknames are mentioned by the hosts, but their non-inclusion in the SECTION TITLE would not baffle people. The official batch names were "BATCH 1-4" and has been used by the show, the hosts and by the article editors here since the show's inception. So, the argument that non-inclusion of the nicknames would baffle the readers is wrong. These nicknames came when? When the last batch's stay was about to end! I have been watching the online show via YouTube, and the explanation at first of these nicknames were to rally the support of each of the batches' fans by tweeting the hashtag codes online. The batch nicknames came in late in the show, more specifically in the recent last weeks of its airing. The show has been airing for more or less 7 months already. People watching it would have been accustomed to "BATCH 1-4" than the later nicknames that were introduced.

Well, I admit I might have been wrong too. What I was pointing at was the inclusion of these nicknames in the SECTION titles. I have not pointed them out. I did not categorically say that they should not be allowed in this article. So what's the solution here? Do not include them in the section titles, let's reserve that to the OFFICIAL BATCH NAMES. Here is my proposal (the colors are based on the batch colors given in the later part in the show):

Name	Age on entry	Hometown	Original Batch				Ultim8 Batch			Refs.
			Batch	Entered1	Exited	Result	Entered	Exited	Result
Ultim8 Batch
Akie Poblete	24	Italy	Batch 4	Day 2	Day 433	Finalist	Day 1			—
Andre Brouillette	21	USA	Batch 2	Day 1	Day 85	Finalist	Day 4
Argel Saycon	20	Negros Oriental	Batch 4	Day 1	Day 433	Batch Runner-up	Day 1			—
Ashley del Mundo	15	Australia	Batch 3	Day 15	Day 57	Batch Winner	Day 5		Finalist	—
Batit Espiritu	19	Nueva Ecija	Batch 3	Day 15	Day 57	Finalist	Day 6			—
Fumiya Sankai	24	Japan	Batch 2	Day 1	Day 85	Batch Runner-up	Day 1
Jelay Pilones	18	General Santos City	Batch 1	Day 2	Day 58	Finalist	Day 4
Kaori Oinuma	18	Japan	Batch 1	Day 2	Day 58	Finalist	Day 5
Karina Bautista	16	Santiago City	Batch 1	Day 2	Day 58	Batch Runner-up	Day 1
Kiara Takahashi	21	La Union	Batch 4	Day 2	Day 433	Batch Winner	Day 1		Finalist	—
Lie Reposposa	15	Davao del Norte	Batch 1	Day 2	Day 58	Batch Winner	Day 3		Finalist
Lou Yanong	21	Mandaluyong City	Batch 2	Day 1	Day 85	Finalist	Day 6
Tan Roncal	15	Davao City	Batch 3	Day 8	Day 57	Finalist	Day 2			—
Wealand Ferrer	21	Nueva Ecija	Batch 4	Day 1	Day 433	Finalist	Day 1			—
Yamyam Gucong	25	Bohol	Batch 2	Day 1	Day 85	Batch Winner	Day 2		Finalist
Yen Quirante	16	Camarines Sur	Batch 3	Day 7	Day 57	Batch Runner-up	Day 3			—

• insert your summary section here*

References

2. These names are official names, as legit as the "challenge names" such as "Housemates vs. Star Dreamers Challenge", "Golden Circle Challenges." The proposal to omit the batch names seems absurd; Would you prefer that the challenges be named "Challenge 1", "Challenge 2", "Challenge 3"?

In my opinion, they are not official names. Again, they were introduced later in the show in order for them to be used for social media purposes. Your comparison to the challenge titles are wrong. These challenge titles or names were already being used upon their introduction in the show, unlike the batch nicknames which came in the very later part of the show.

Now, unless we come to a resolution to this issue, let's stick first with the old version. According to WP:OWN:

Where disagreement persists after such a reversion, the editor proposing the change should first take the matter to the talk page, without personal comments or accusations of ownership. In this way, the specifics of any change can be discussed with the editors who are familiar with the article, who are likewise expected to discuss the content civilly. This is in keeping with the BRD cycle, which stands for bold, revert, discuss. Though not an official policy or guideline, it is a dependable method for dispute resolution.

@Oenix2nd: and @Alucard 16:, @Akuindo:, @Nicco18:, @RealityWikier:, would you like to mediate with this issue?--AR E N Z O Y 1 6A•t a l k• 09:54, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

I'm in support with the 'social media' names to be on the article somewhere. RealityWikier (talk) 10:03, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

I still disagree with you on some points, but the changes are acceptable. My only concern is the presence of the information somewhere in the article. Aniloy (talk) 14:39, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Table and Batch winners

@Renzoy16: I want to plead my case in my favor of my nominations table. My main problem with the current nomination table is that it gives the illusion that the Batch Winners were announced on the same day the finalists were determined which is not the case. I took the style of the 737 Teen Nomination Table as, like with this season, the winner wasn't determined until a later date. I fail to see why 737's lack of an merged batch is an issue for the Otso Table. The only primary difference I can see is in Otso, the Batch Winner voting began right away in contrast to 737 Teens where the Winner vote wasn't held until the Big Night. I reflected this in the table with the percentage results spanning both the Salubong column and the Batch Winner column, as shown. RealityWikier (talk) 10:03, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

	Big8ting Salubong	Ultim8 Batch: Batch Winner	Nominations received
	#8	#9
Eviction Day and Date	Day 58 January 6	Day 7 July 13
Nomination Day and Date	—
Lie	Finalist (Exited; Day 58)	Batch Winner (Day 7)	10 (+2)
Karina	Finalist (Exited; Day 58)	Runner-Up (Day 7)	4 (+3)
Kaori	Finalist (Exited; Day 58)	3rd Place (Day 7)	5 (+2)
Jelay	Finalist (Exited; Day 58)	4th Place (Day 7)	2 (+1)
Notes	See Note 8
Immunity	Open Voting
Up for eviction
Saved from eviction	Lie 37.48%
Evicted	Karina 29.22% Kaori 23.52% Jelay 9.79%
Voluntary Exit
References

	#7	Exit of Teen Big 4	BIG NIGHT	Nominations received
Eviction Day and Date	Day 49 August 7	Day 50 August 8	Days 141 & 142 November 7 & 8
Nomination Day and Date	Day 47 August 5	Day 49 August 7	Day 133 October 30
Jimboy	No nominations	Finalist (Exited, Day 50)	Winner	2 (+1; -9)
Ylona	No nominations	Finalist (Exited, Day 50)	Runner-up	10 (+1)
Franco	No nominations	Finalist (Exited, Day 50)	3rd Place (Day 141)	4 (-4)
Bailey	No nominations	Finalist (Exited, Day 50)	4th Place (Day 141)	8 (-1)
Notes
Up for eviction	Open Voting
Ligtask Winner	Kenzo	not implemented
Saved from eviction	Ylona 19.84% Jimboy 10.90% Franco 3.78% Bailey 1.99%		Jimboy 56.76% (out of 2) to win
Evicted	Kenzo -9.38%		Ylona 43.24% (out of 2) to win Franco 20.71% (out of 4) to win Bailey 7.58% (out of 4) to win
Voluntary Exit
References

@RealityWikier: you are right. I am changing the tables now to reflect the events. Thank you for correcting me on this. :)--AR E N Z O Y 1 6A•t a l k• 13:21, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

Day and Episode count

I have counted the days of PBB Otso in a spreadsheet and the result is 268 days. The episode count should be 265 days; as far as I could remember, the show did not air only for 3 days on Holy Week. -Aniloy (talk) 00:05, 12 August 2019 (UTC)